At The Cash: How Greed Turned a Advantage. (September 24, 2025)
It’s a driving consider our lives. However how usually have you considered these little inexperienced items of paper in your pockets? Is cash actual, or just a collective delusion?
Full transcript beneath.
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About this week’s visitor:
Paul Vigna is a reporter for The Wall Road Journal and has been a journalist for greater than 25 years, as a reporter, editor, and photographer. He presently covers the cryptocurrency sector, together with bitcoin, different digital currencies, and blockchain-related applied sciences. He’s the writer of “The Almightier: How Cash Turned God, Greed Turned Advantage, and Debt Turned Sin.”
For more information, see:
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TRANSCRIPT:
“The purpose is, women and gents, that greed, for lack of a greater phrase, is nice. Greed is correct, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts by way of and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed in all of its types. Greed for all times, cash, love, data, has marked the upward surge of mankind…”
-Gordon Gekko, Wall Road, 1987
“ For the love of cash is the basis of all evil.”
Greed was lengthy seen as a vice, as egocentric as a waste of our time. It undercuts each our happiness and our life satisfaction. But at this time, the pursuit of cash appears to be in every single place. It’s a driving consider all of our lives. How did the love of cash go from a vice to a advantage?
I’m Barry Ritholtz, and on at this time’s version of At The Cash, we’re gonna focus on how greed turned good. To assist us unpack all of this and what it means for you, let’s usher in Paul Vigna of the Wall Road Journal. He’s revealed quite a few books on cash and cryptocurrencies. His newest guide is “The Almightier: How Cash Turned God, Greed turned Advantage and Debt Turned a Sin.”
Paul, when did greed change into good and the way did this occur?
Paul Vigna: I feel individuals assume that greed turned good. That concept kind of took place within the eighties and, and you’ve got the Wall Road clip, Gordon Gecko, you already know, greed, for lack of a greater phrase, is nice.
And the eighties had been the greed decade. And, and lots of people will say, you already know, you had the election of Reagan. Uh, the conservatives, all of it modified within the eighties and, and we’ve been residing in that world, and I grew up within the eighties. You probably did too, Barry. I used to be a youngster within the eighties and I had absorbed plenty of these, these beliefs and people concepts additionally.
However what I’ve found is that you simply really can hint that concept. Additional again, a lot additional again. I’m not speaking in regards to the, the robber barons within the gilded age within the Nineties the place you will discover it. I’m not speaking in regards to the Mississippi bubble within the 1700s the place you will discover it,
You may hint that concept again particularly virtually to the yr, at the very least, to the last decade, to the 1420s. There was a Florentine author named Poeo Bini, and he wrote a dialogue. And the dialogue comprises among the many many, many issues within the dialogue, it comprises this sentence, I’ll simply say the sentence: “Avarice generally is useful.” It’s virtually phrase for phrase what Gecko says in Wall Road. Gecko says, greed, for lack of a phrase, higher phrase is nice. “Avarice generally is useful.” That concept was, was incubated in Florence within the 1420s.
Florence was a mercantile metropolis. It was a republic, and there have been plenty of retailers there. It was principally pushed by commerce, and people retailers had this perception; they couldn’t speak about it, they couldn’t specific it. They couldn’t actually present it as a result of the church’s stance was that usury is evil. It must be outlawed, greed is the basis of all evil. You recognize, it was very, very harmful to return out and say greed is nice.
Barry Ritholtz: So let me ask you about one thing else. Historic figures who may need change into forgotten? Who philosophized on this matter; Who had been the financial thinkers who rebranded greed from a lethal sin to a driver of social profit? You talked about broccolini. Who else had been, had been key thinkers on this area?
Paul Vigna: It’s attention-grabbing ’trigger the, the one dialogue that basically states it the most effective is, is the one from Brachii.
So I spent plenty of time speaking about that, however what’s attention-grabbing is that he ran on this circle of influential thinkers and doers that included, uh, a banker that most individuals most likely know the title of, at the very least named Cosmo de Medici. And a person who would change into Pope, who would change into Pope Nicholas, the V, he was a bishop and, and he was a ni uh, Cosmo was really, he was a, a, a supporter of this Bishop Nicholas.
The V turns into, Pope Cosmo turns into a very powerful banker in Europe and, and really one of the crucial necessary politicians in Europe. They usually take this concept and so they run with it. Cosmo employs this in his financial institution, in his private life. He makes some huge cash. He spends some huge cash. He exhibits individuals that you may be grasping, you may pursue wealth for your self.
You may change into very, very wealthy, and you may then change into influential. He helps architects, he helps artists. He helps all types of public works tasks. That turns into a really, and also you’re speaking about tradition, that turns into a really influential cultural instance to individuals in Europe.
Barry Ritholtz: Following the Medici household in Florence, which on the time was most likely the wealthiest metropolis state in Europe, uh, we ultimately go ahead to John Calvin and Protestantism, and Calvin holds that wealth is an indication of divine favor. That is the precise reverse of greed is a sin.
That is “Wealth, proves that the gods are smiling on you.”
Paul Vigna: I’ll go, I’ll undergo a few hundred years of historical past in a short time right here. So, uh, these Florentines begin saying, greed is nice, and so they present it for instance, and it type of takes off.
It takes off within the Catholic church, which begins using it. The Catholic church begins elevating a ton of cash and spending cash on the similar time. They actually purchase this, I name it within the guide, “the ethos of helpful greed.” They begin shopping for into it, and naturally all of it turns into extra, proper?
A Medici turns into Pope, Pope Leo the tenth, and he’s simply, he’s, he’s horribly, terribly corrupt. He’s a very dangerous pope, and he spends some huge cash, and he’s really the principally the antagonist of Martin Luther, like the entire Protestant Reformation is a riot in opposition to the excesses of Leo the tenth and the Catholic Church.
However what’s attention-grabbing is that after the Protestant Reformation takes off the thought – what they are surely in opposition to is the excesses – they’re not really in opposition to the thought of cash. And John Calvin comes alongside and John Calvin could be very, very clear. And what he says is God controls every thing, right down to the final hair in your head is decided by God (and I don’t have plenty of hairs on my head left, you already know, so there’s that)
God controls every thing. God, every thing that occurs occurs as a result of God needs it to occur. You probably have cash, it’s as a result of God wished you to have cash so. No matter job you will have, it is best to do it to the most effective of your capability and it is best to go on the market and make as a lot cash as you need as a result of that’s what God needs for you.
He doesn’t need you to spend it the best way the Catholics do. (And I’m Catholic, so if anybody’s upset about, you already know, Catholic bashing, I’m simply being historic right here). He doesn’t need you to spend it the best way these, you already know, propagate Catholics do.
However God needs you to have it after which needs you to place it to good makes use of. You recognize, assist the poor, assist the indigent, you already know, do, do good issues with it, however in case you have it, God needs you to have it. That concept turns into, at that time, turns into deeply, deeply embedded in our tradition.
Barry Ritholtz: Let’s quick ahead to individuals like Richard Baxter and even Ayn Rand. How does the thought that “greed is nice” progress over the subsequent few hundred years?
Paul Vigna: The subsequent few hundred years, and once more, I’m gonna do that very quick. (If individuals need the entire thing, they’ll, they’ll purchase the guide. Thanks very a lot prematurely. Sure. I’m grasping too. I wanna promote my guide.)
Calvin is influential. One other Protestant theologian named Richard Baxter Takes it a step additional and he begins explaining how companies function and the way, you already know, the pursuit of wealth is employed as a instrument of God’s will. After which who takes that even a step additional, is Adam Smith, whose Smith’s entire thought actually is that. The financial system we’ve got, which had existed for a number of hundred years by the point Smith got here round.
The financial system we’ve got is an ethical system. That is the way it works. That is what’s good about it by all these individuals on the market doing these jobs that they’re speculated to be doing, the division of labor, that is all transferring us in direction of a greater relationship with God. That concept is, on the very least, it’s moralistic in Smith’s worldview, if not outright non secular. He type of secularizes it a bit bit….
Let’s tackle that precisely, as a result of Yeah, certain. I, I’ve to ask the query, what’s the connection between the rise of capitalism and the redefinition of greed, uh, or at the very least motivated self-interest as a advantage?
Paul Vigna: I really assume – and I state this fairly clearly within the guide – I feel this variation in angle towards greed is definitely what creates capitalism. There’s a line within the guide. I say, “Capitalism didn’t create greed; Greed created capitalism.”
What you see in Florence within the 1400s. Now I’m going backwards a bit bit, however the begin of it, that’s the first time you see individuals using capital consciously as a instrument for themselves and for society.
It was once simply in regards to the the Aristocracy and the kings and the wealthy, you already know, accruing wealth, and it was all for them. Now you see this concept that, wait, wait, wait a second. We will really, anyone commoners or the Aristocracy can pursue wealth, and that may be a instrument to assist us in our personal lives and to assist society.
That’s the cornerstone of capitalism. “Greed is nice,” explains capitalism because it really operates. That isn’t how the textbooks inform you it operates. Truly went by way of the textbooks and I seemed and just like the phrase greed doesn’t seem in them in any respect.
Barry Ritholtz: Nicely, it’s motivated self-interest and it’s homo economists and all that stuff, so,
Paul Vigna: However it’s all the time type of like sloughed off to the aspect, proper?
Barry Ritholtz: You make it a central focus.
Paul Vigna: So financial is about. Effectivity. It’s about, you already know, system. No, it’s about greed. It’s really about individuals utilizing greed and you may see it winding its manner by way of our tradition. Adam Smith secularizes the thought and other people seize upon it. After which you will have this, this new nation that had simply shaped within the Americas and so they rejected the king, they rejected the church. They wanted one thing to floor their new nation on. And what they got here up with and James Madison, one of many founders, makes this most clear: Property rights, cash, wealth. That’s what the nation is really based on. This concept that that time turns into so deeply embedded within the tradition of America, that that’s what our, that that’s the, that’s the cornerstone of our historical past.
Barry Ritholtz: Let dive deeper into that. ’trigger the guide delves into the transformation of cash, from a spiritual and communal instrument to that precise secular object of religion. Are you saying that largely the creation and financial success of the USA has been one of many key drivers of the idea that motivated self-interest, to make use of a much less polarizing time period and greed, financial textbook time period, that what led us to a few quotes out of your guide. Banks are church buildings of cash and the opposite quote that stood out, cash isn’t like a faith, cash is a faith.
Has cash secularized greed or has cash simply type of moved into faith’s? Sphere and stated, Hey, we would like a part of this faith-based thought additionally?
Paul Vigna: I feel it’s finished each actually. That is actually the argument of the guide is that it has changed faith as the inducement system round which a society revolves. In different phrases, I stated, I stated earlier, 5,000 years in the past, society revolved across the temple and it revolved the, across the thought of pleasing the gods.
That perception system pale. You may’t, within the fashionable world, have that perception. (I do know there are many individuals on the market that consider in faith and I’m not attempting to to, you already know, assault their perception programs). However you may’t have a contemporary society constructed round that – at the very least the USA is a contemporary society that isn’t constructed round that – that may’t be the inspiration.
It the truth is isn’t the inspiration and the historical past of Europe exhibits this over time, the authority of Kings, which got here from the church. Was was whittled away and whittled away and thru wars and civil wars and, and you already know, all of it pale. Faith was changed by this different perception system and that different perception system is centered round cash and the pursuit of wealth.
Barry Ritholtz: So to wrap up, how did greed change into a advantage? Nicely-motivated self-interest has allowed us to elevate billions of individuals out of poverty. Capitalism has shifted the dominant thesis of simply residing on the planet from considered one of shortage to considered one of abundance. And we’ve managed to take what was as soon as perceived as a vice and turned it right into a advantage by constructing a complete financial system round rewarding success, rewarding the suitable allocation of sources by firms, by governments, and by individuals.
I’m Barry Ritholtz. You might be listening to Bloomberg’s on the Cash.
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